Rails World 2023 Recap & Rails Foundation Plans with Amanda Perino

Speaker 2: 0:00

This is remote, ruby have you any remote ideas to the meaning of the word.

Speaker 1: 0:08

Andrew, glad you could join us for the second one, good morning. Good morning, I was served breakfast this morning.

Speaker 3: 0:16

I feel good now.

Speaker 1: 0:18

Who did you get from the airport? See frozen.

Speaker 2: 0:24

Oh, I thought that was a long pause.

Speaker 1: 0:26

I thought I just didn't want to answer.

Speaker 3: 0:28

I was like are they all just staring at me? Why are they still staring at me?

Speaker 1: 0:33

Ask who did you get from the airport? And it was just like you looking into our souls.

Speaker 3: 0:38

Good, I'm going to leave it that way. A friend of mine yeah, what friend. A friend of mine, jason? I have other friends.

Speaker 1: 0:45

I don't believe you, I didn't know if maybe your mom was in town.

Speaker 3: 0:48

Okay, well, I know I drove the airport and then I drove home, just so I could get like a picture of like picking up some from the airport.

Speaker 1: 0:54

There it is. How is your mom?

Speaker 3: 0:56

Good.

Speaker 1: 0:57

All right. Well, I'm glad you're here, and I'm also glad that Amanda is here from the rail foundation, who not only has been tirelessly working to put on an event playing, the next one and some other initiatives we'll talk about today, but also decided to take time to come talk to us on remote Ruby. Hello, amanda.

Speaker 2: 1:16

Thank you for having me again. It's always fun to talk to you all, but also like together in person, it's always great yeah this is good, we're glad to have you.

Speaker 1: 1:24

So I think there's one obvious thing we could talk about, which is Rails world and type script. Another freeze frame I look at it, but not ready for that.

Speaker 3: 1:38

Record scratch.

Speaker 1: 1:42

So yeah, I'd love to hear, kind of first maybe how you thought Rails world went.

Speaker 2: 1:47

The funny thing about Rails world is, for me, it's still going on. The videos are still coming out. I just pushed the blog post live. There's people to pay, still things to ship, so I'm still kind of in the thick of it. It's got a long tail afterwards but I think it's almost done. But as far as the onsite experience, I had a really good time. That's like the long and short of it. I had a fantastic time and it was good to see so many people, so many enthusiastic people together, just vibing. That's kind of what I felt. How did you all experience it?

Speaker 4: 2:22

Yeah, you go to a conference and come back home and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad to be part of this community and just so energized. I need this on a regular basis. If you ever feel like I'm getting burnt out or whatever, I can go to a conference and then it just cures a lot of that. Or I'm like look at all this cool stuff everybody's doing. It's just so nice. Everybody's so friendly and constructive and everything. It's just a wonderful group of people.

Speaker 2: 2:50

And one of the things I noticed when going through the photos that I shared the photo with the three of you in the podcast, the Buzzsprout Podcast booth today, because it also hit me. The core team, for instance, was on site and they were having dinner. These are things that we all do remotely, but when you do it in person together, it just adds this different dynamic. So I'm so glad that in person events are back.

Speaker 4: 3:11

Yeah, we had a recording for that and we absolutely.

Speaker 3: 3:14

Yeah, that was our first time having all three of us doing it.

Speaker 2: 3:16

That's wild. Recording together in the same thing.

Speaker 1: 3:19

Oh, that's great We've recorded separately together, but never all three of us. So, shout out Buzzsprout, because that was such a cool setup.

Speaker 4: 3:28

Yeah, we just need a fan or air conditioning. Next time Was it worth it. It was a nice little sauna experience with each other, yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:37

I was a little worried about that. I actually thought it was going to be smaller so that it would only be one on one. So I was really happy when it arrived and it was a four person meeting space. But yeah, I guess it did get a little toasty out there.

Speaker 4: 3:48

It was the perfect size. It was a great size. There's plenty of room and we didn't feel cramped or anything, and for as loud as it was, with people talking around us you heard when we were recording during the final happy hour thing, you heard the mumbling and stuff around, but it was part of the experience though, so it was really awesome we loved it. It was cool.

Speaker 2: 4:11

So the challenge will be to figure out because that was a company who events stack, found that actual space. I said I want something like this and they found the booth. But it was company who sells those to offices. They weren't prepared to rent or ship it somewhere and then take it back. They were a little bit like we don't do this, so being able to find that in Toronto is going to be a challenge too.

Speaker 4: 4:31

I think you're going to end up like a Formula one team with the stuff you ship between conferences and stuff. Podcast booths air conditioner separate sauna room.

Speaker 3: 4:43

We'll still want that experience. Raise the standards. Like I'm not going to podcast in person unless I'm in the house.

Speaker 2: 4:50

Don't roll out of bed. Yeah, one podcast booth, yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:54

He won't even roll out of bed for our own recording.

Speaker 3: 4:57

Hey, I'm here yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:00

This is the first one we've done today.

Speaker 2: 5:02

When we're thinking about the feedback. I love feedback after an event, so I'm going through it and everybody on site will say, hey, this is great, this is great to your face. But they feel more comfortable giving negative feedback privately, which makes sense. You don't want to stomp on anybody's flower garden, so even this is a testament to this community. I think Even the negative feedback is packaged so kindly and nicely. It's very much. I don't want to be nitpicky, but it might be better if you consider this in a few. And it's just tiptoeing around, something like the music was too loud and after party or something which was feedback. So I don't know. I'm reading it and I'm like everybody's so nice, even when they're trying to give bad news or negative feedback, which so far it hasn't been anything really terribly negative.

Speaker 1: 5:50

That's great, because that also sounds like all the techniques I've learned in therapy for communicating Yours is one of them actually, jason, yours was so kind, maybe this or that.

Speaker 2: 6:00

X Y Z.

Speaker 1: 6:01

That's my years of therapy, so kind of along those lines. Chris asked this morning on Twitter or X or whatever the hell you call it, if anyone had any questions, and Emmanuel Hafer had asked like Rails World was an immense event Given its magnitude. How did you expertly handle the stress, seamlessly, coordinate everything and yet still appear so composed and find time to engage with all of us?

Speaker 2: 6:27

I have to say I've noticed I didn't get as many questions as DHH. I'm trying not to take that personally.

Speaker 1: 6:33

Just kind of find some real controversial topics.

Speaker 2: 6:37

I had topics, but basically that was Thomas and Jan from Event Stack doing all the dirty work, like really being the ones to if I had a question or a comment or this doesn't look right. I kind of offloaded on them and they just ran with it and made things happen behind the scenes so that I could really focus on the people who were there the attendees, the speakers and connecting and listening to everybody's feedback about what they won out of the foundation. So all thanks goes to them for that.

Speaker 1: 7:04

Yeah, and as a speaker, Thomas specifically was like so great to work with. I even had the little minor issue while we were there, like just with a hotel and he was like oh yeah, no, I got it Like, I'll handle it yeah nothing was ever too difficult for them.

Speaker 2: 7:18

I even did this diva move where I was like I don't like those flowers, please can we remove them. He was like they're gone. And then they were gone and then later he was like yeah, they didn't belong there anyway and he took it completely off of my mind and took that burden on himself. It was really nice.

Speaker 1: 7:32

That's awesome. I had some questions. There is stuff like when you walk in, there's this huge cut out that says we love rails, and then to the left there's like a whole board of history of rails. Whose idea was that?

Speaker 2: 7:45

Those were both mine, trying to figure out what. Yeah, I liked them as well. I have to figure out what to do with those big ass we heart rails. They're still somewhere at the venue and I got to figure out where they're going to go because they're a lot bigger than I thought they were going to be. But for an event you want a photo opportunity and something for people to engage with, and that's what those basically were solving Engaging by putting your name on the wall and becoming a part of the timeline of rails. And then the photo of we heart rails which, when I walked in, the people who had put it on stage, it said rails hearts me or something. And me and the volunteer Lord were looking and we were like no, and we turned the M upside down we heart rails and everybody went oh yeah, that makes way more sense.

Speaker 4: 8:31

That's hilarious. I was admiring when we walk in. It's like speakers names are on a special sign outside and there's things that like half circle windows above the doors to walk into the rooms. That was a custom print too. It was just like kind of blown away by the. I know how much time it takes to design and get those made right. And then just seeing all of those, I was like wow, you put in so much attention to detail to get all this organized. I know one of my feedbacks was like when we talked a long time ago, like we need place to just bump into people and talk, and it was like so many good places and between the talks to run into people, or in the big room where the sponsors were and everything. There was just so much. We're just watching people cross paths and then stop and say hi and everything and yeah made it feel like it wasn't 700, some people there or whatever felt like it was 100 or 200, felt like you could talk to everybody that you wanted to.

Speaker 2: 9:34

When I'm going through the photos, I'm like okay, talk to them, talk to them, talk to them, talk to them, talk to them, talk to them. Chris, you were specifically in demand, oh my God.

Speaker 4: 9:41

So both days I attempted to eat lunch and I made it through the doors to that room and that's as far as I made it, and then lunch was gone and just kept talking to people the whole time. And yeah, after winning the luminary award it was like double the first day because everybody wanted a picture with me then. But it was amazing Just meeting everybody. I told so many people it's weird that I record a video alone in my office, I click publish and maybe I'll see a comment or two or whatever. But that's as far as it goes and I don't actually get to interact with people who watch our stuff. And it's so nice to be at a conference and hear the stories of I learned whatever from you and got a job and all that crazy stuff. So the conferences are like such a special and exhausting thing.

Speaker 4: 10:34

But there are so many amazing people there that it was wild. Yeah, I had such a good time.

Speaker 3: 10:40

I need to like.

Speaker 2: 10:41

I need to go for yeah, I was like do you want some water?

Speaker 4: 10:47

He was like bringing me water and stuff. It was, yeah, he's amazing, but next time I know I'll just stand by the lunch lines and then wait for it all day. That's my plan.

Speaker 2: 11:00

I think Andy Krull was my savior. Certain points he saw that I was talking to a lot of people and he'd come over and he'd go what do you need? Or you come over, what do you need? White wine, please, but just show up in my hand after that.

Speaker 4: 11:14

I was also going to go back a little bit to shout out the production crew was amazing. The screen, that giant screen for the backdrop of the slides and everything was incredible. But like as a speaker, having them like take your slides, walk you through everything, give you a clicker, yada, yada, yada yada, and then just feel super prepared and it just was so well polished compared to other conferences I've spoken at and stuff. I mean, I did a workshop previously and we walk in the room. There's nobody there. We have to figure out how to turn on the microphones and all that stuff ourselves and connect our laptop and whatever. We just airdrop the slides to them and then boom, it's done. It was wonderful, it was so good.

Speaker 2: 12:00

So the person behind that, the main spider in that web, is Anka. She's a friend of mine and I know her because we worked on Hashikov at my last company together and I know the touch that she brings is really. She's mostly behind the scenes and you see the, for instance, the two stage managers, emile and Paul, who are the ones like helping Mike you up and telling you when to go on stage and how the clicker works. But behind that is Anka and Simona and just want to go with them everywhere because they bring that production value and they bring that polish. And I would really like Rails World to be one of the best speaking experiences, not just in our industry but baby tech Like. People want to speak there and they want to share their stories and speak to the Rails community. And that has a lot to do with it getting the right people with you, working with you consistently.

Speaker 1: 12:47

I was already really honored, excited to speak at Rails World, like just from what we literally knew about it. But like after actually getting there and speaking, like I'm already like how can I start working on a proposal that can get accepted next year? Because it was really I don't know. It was a really good experience. Like Chris said, like the AV experience was good. You and Thomas communicated so well with us.

Speaker 1: 13:10

I felt valued being there and that also makes you, as a speaker, want to do a really good job too, like you want to live up to it.

Speaker 2: 13:17

There are some things I think we could do better, like preparing you a little bit more, for if you give your speaker slides to backstage or whatever you want to call it from the house actually, then you'll be able to see your notes and use the clicker and you can be more engaged with the audience. And I think we didn't do that creative a job with that, but we'll know for next time to prepare people better.

Speaker 1: 13:38

Yeah, I didn't realize that, because I just used to like putting my laptop on a stand, plugging HDMI in and clicking, and so one of my jokes is oh, like I'm giving the wrong presentation, so like I recorded myself the Laravel thing.

Speaker 1: 13:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so like I recorded on the airplane a video of me like closing keynote and then it's oh, that's the LaraCon slide deck and opening the Rails world slide deck, with the assumption that I would just go walk over there and look like I'm like actually closing my slides and stuff. And so I just left the video in and I liked the joke and afterwards I walked off stage. I can't remember the guy who was helping back there but he said you confuse my colleague, because they were like how is he doing this?

Speaker 3: 14:19

Like how is he?

Speaker 1: 14:19

closing keynote. And they were like, oh, it's just a video, yeah, at least they didn't wipe it off, this thing, really quick Right.

Speaker 2: 14:28

And it was a mistake.

Speaker 1: 14:29

Yeah, yeah, I took a picture behind stage because I was just so enamored with this huge LED wall. I'm used to like let's throw a 1080 projector up and put a black curtain underneath, so it was cool.

Speaker 2: 14:42

It's a big stage. But yeah, the number one feedback was you couldn't see the bottom. Third, I had a panic attack when somebody in Slack said, hey, speakers, change your slides. I was like, no, never ask the speakers on the same day to change your slides. It's easier, because it's an LED screen, to just lift it up, but I think sometimes it didn't stay up Like they made it big again. So that's really interesting, useful feedback to go to every corner of the room and make sure you can see the whole thing and also share with speakers beforehand what it's going to look like.

Speaker 1: 15:11

Yeah, and I think the problem specifically with that was that it was too low but you probably wouldn't even have been able to tell, because it's because the people in front of you you couldn't see. So even if you had gone to every corner, it was still like by the time you sat down and there's.

Speaker 2: 15:23

Yeah, the head people in front of you, that's when you start lifting up yeah.

Speaker 4: 15:26

I had some text low on the slides and I was like, well, whatever, they can always watch the video afterwards to catch what they missed or something. But the good thing is like the volume too loud during the happy hour and the text too low or whatever, like they're super duper minor things that, yeah, little annoying in the moment maybe, but fixable and not showstoppers or anything Like everything felt like it went super duper smooth.

Speaker 2: 15:54

Yeah, it was surprisingly smooth on our side as well, like there was definitely little fires to put out Understand that there was drilling in the building during, I think, iriana and Azarovas talk. That's something the venue could have maybe not done. You know they had full control over that of all days. They wanted to drill when somebody I don't know.

Speaker 1: 16:12

That's funny. Overall, my wife's not a developer. This is her first time at a conference with me and she was like blown away. She's helped me put on Southeast Ruby. Like she is the one who like basically did all the real work for three years and so she, like, at a much lower level, understands the amount of work involved. So she could really appreciate all the work you and Thomas and everyone did. Cool so that. So that leads, I think, to another good question, which is about next year's why Toronto and what factors influence the decision to choose this location for the next Rails world.

Speaker 2: 16:45

I saw that and that's a really great question. North America, let's say, is arguably the biggest marker for Rails, so we knew for sure that we eventually wanted to have an event there, but it was just easier to start in Europe, which hadn't really had. Well, this year had a lot of events in our space, but a Rails specific conference of this size maybe not. So we started in Europe and next year we knew we wanted to go to North America and then, when I started the search, there's all sorts of factors that you have to keep in mind. Months you want to go to, what's the weather going to be like? Is it accessible as a city? Are there big holidays going on? Is another conference happening Like I couldn't do, for instance, san Diego, because San Diego just happened with RubyConf, for instance.

Speaker 2: 17:27

So you want to kind of give space to cities that people have gotten to as well in the recent past, and what was important this time was somewhere in North America. So we're easily accessible in North America, especially, for instance, south America coming up, which would have been harder to come to Europe, but Europe was great for maybe, north Americans and people like North Africa, for instance. So, trying to get as much bang for your buck in each location, or at least as many people in easily. So we were looking at New Orleans, miami, boston, houston, chicago and Toronto. And Toronto was my favorite from the get-go because, on top of all these other factors that you're looking at, the weather is going to be great in the month that we want to go, which wasn't the case for Miami hurricane season.

Speaker 2: 18:13

But the venue the venues for me are almost everything Like we talked about this before last time I was on your show. It adds something to an event to have a special venue, and that's kind of what I was looking for. So, on top of all these things, there was very few places that fit the bill, and Toronto was just a shoe-in when I saw the location, the venue itself.

Speaker 3: 18:32

And because I'm been there. So that was the other factor, right.

Speaker 2: 18:35

Exactly, and then I had to act. It did shut that off. There it is.

Speaker 1: 18:38

It only took 27 minutes for it to come back to.

Speaker 3: 18:41

I'm excited to go to Toronto for my first time.

Speaker 2: 18:44

I have to warn you it's going to present challenges that we didn't have in Amsterdam Logistical challenges. The city is a completely different vibe. It's bigger city than Amsterdam, less accessible to get around. The hotel prices are just as high, especially like the time that we want to go is overlapping a little bit with the Toronto International Film Festival. So there's definitely problems. I think what we can expect moving forward is we're going to try different things each time, but keeping a certain standard of what we want and let the city and the venue sort of shape the rest of the experience.

Speaker 3: 19:17

I had a ton of fun in Amsterdam. I'm going to say that had never been in Europe before. No, I'm just saying from the perspective of I like the idea of switching it around, not being in the United States the entire time. Really enjoyed getting that experience to travel out there.

Speaker 2: 19:31

I just wish. I had more time to hang out with everybody, like everybody's in my city, and I didn't have any time or energy when it finally came down to get out of my house when I wasn't at the venue.

Speaker 4: 19:40

Yeah Well, like you said, the conference still isn't over for you yet. Yeah so, yeah. So we'll propose, like Fiji and Hawaii and other places we want to go sort of vacation to the Maldives, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 19:56

I really like the Canada location, though, because I can't think of a Ruby conference in Canada in my tenure as a Rails developer.

Speaker 2: 20:06

A couple of days before we announced it, I saw somebody on Twitter saying, hey, there hasn't been any sort of Ruby event and I'm going to do it in Toronto. And I was like, dude, just wait a couple of days, it's coming.

Speaker 4: 20:17

Chill, chill, chill, chill, chill. I just can't say anything. Yeah, so you just reply with the two eyes? Emoji.

Speaker 2: 20:22

Yeah, that's my number one. Go to.

Speaker 4: 20:27

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Speaker 4: 21:29

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Speaker 2: 22:09

It can be fully unique every time. I want to have some sort of consistency so people know what to expect and know how Rails world differentiates from other events in our space. I think that's important. What that kind of blueprint looks like, yeah, I just need to keep the vibe cool, which to me is venue and good music.

Speaker 2: 22:28

What we didn't have actually this time, that I think I want to try to solve for next time in some capacity, is like a communal space for people to meet outside of conference hours. I was hoping the speaker hotel would be that, but really wasn't in the end. I think a really cool hotel, but possibly a little bit too far off the beaten track for the rest of the attendees. So, finding a hotel or some sort of bar that we could just crash at and, if I'm being honest, in RailsConf that I went to in Atlanta, talking to everybody in the hotel bar was one of the best experiences. Yeah, it's the people you meet.

Speaker 2: 23:04

It's where I met Dave Paola and that's how the conference app idea came to be. It's where ideas happen and we didn't have the space for that because Amsterdam is so small to create that somewhere, but North America has a lot more space and a lot more options for that. So I think that's something I'd like to add, and I don't know if we'll be able to keep it if we, for instance, come back to Europe at a certain point. But that's something I'd like to try to solve for, to add and do different.

Speaker 4: 23:29

Yeah, that's a really good point, because pretty much every RailsConf I remember we just crash at the same bar every night. It was either the hotel bar or, like a similar location, like a different hotels bar. There was a rooftop bar that we stayed at a different hotel one time and there was always like 50 people up there from the conference.

Speaker 3: 23:51

Yeah, it was, it's a nice oyster bar. Oh yeah, lots of oysters there that week.

Speaker 4: 23:58

I think that's a good thing. The conference experience doesn't end at the end of the last talk of the day, in a way it just begins again. But it's a whole different sort of experience for the evening and stuff. But we ended up in the hotel bar talking to several people multiple times and even over the weekend because not everybody left right away. We stayed a couple extra days and we're talking to the Buzzsprout guys in the morning one morning or whatever.

Speaker 4: 24:27

Yeah, that's even more fun because it's oh, you're still around. You get some more one-on-one time that during the chaos of the conference. You get to talk to a lot of people, but it may not be as long as you want. Our excuse has been like come on the podcast and we'll we have a whole hour with you then.

Speaker 4: 24:45

There's just so much of that. That's even just like the experience outside of the conference you have to plan, but you would never think about that if this was your first time planning an event, and it's crazy how much goes into this. So I want to just give you a huge shout out for everything you did, because I know people who are like well, what the hell is the Rails Foundation doing?

Speaker 4: 25:04

And it's well you knew how much goes into an event like this, you would understand. But that's probably the beauty of what you've done is it's, as an attendee or a speaker, so easy to just experience and we don't have to deal with anything. And you've already taken care of so much and made it special. And I mean showing up in the hotel and we've got all of our speaker goodies a backpack and shirts and whatever, and all that was like oh, this is just special, so it was just such a great experience.

Speaker 4: 25:38

but there's a stupid amount of work that goes into making it.

Speaker 2: 25:43

And the thing is the Rails Foundation isn't just set up to put on this event. There are other things that we want to do. So the whole time when Rails world was getting closer and closer, I'd like you're trying to put another, let's say, like ball in the air for documentation or something. But it's just gets so pressing an event and all encompassing in those last couple weeks that everything else went on hold. So I like, the closer it got, the more I was like it's almost done, it's almost done, it's almost done. But I really enjoyed it on site. But there's so much we want to do. I'm excited to change focus. Fun to that for a little while.

Speaker 3: 26:16

Well, let's talk about the documentation. I want to get it kind of like next real foundation.

Speaker 2: 26:22

So we have these two job vacancies open right now One is for UX designer and one is for a technical writer, and the way we see it is, there's a lot of small little projects that can become this great big documentation project. There's like you putting the navigation bar across all the properties, that it's consistent when you go from one to the other. Fixing with the guides look like, updating into a more modern look and feel, creating a path for I keep calling it a learn path, but like a beginner's path on like where would a new beginner tutorial go? What would a new beginner tutorial look like? And then where would it go on the website, and decoupling it, maybe from the installation guide, which I think should be completely different. This is how you install it, that this is what you need to learn. So there's all these small little fixes that we're going to start to tackle with the help of a UX designer and probably more than one technical writer, because I'd also like, for instance, case studies of how these companies are using Rails and what challenges did you face and how did you overcome them for the marketing side. And then, of course, fixing, going back and seeing where are the holes in the guides and where can we update the information or is it still relevant? Just look at it with new eyes as well as all the beginner stuff. So I see these as maybe being a couple of technical writers that we work with over time, and maybe one solid UX designer. So my next steps are going through all of the applications that came through there's some good ones, I have to say and then having those discussions and setting expectations there and just kind of starting in little bits and pieces to make sure that we all work together. We have like jive well as a team and then people will actually start to see more things happen in the documentation space.

Speaker 4: 28:03

And then you got a fine place to put the DHH Leonardo da Vinci somewhere like on the homepage front and center or something.

Speaker 2: 28:12

Nothing will convince me that he didn't know what he was doing when he put that image up there.

Speaker 4: 28:18

Yeah, it was too similar. It was hilarious. Yeah, I'm looking forward to this. It's funny how I'm sure somebody new can come to the guides and be like, oh, this design looks kind of old or whatever and that might put them off. And they might be like, oh, maybe I will double check this other thing or whatever. And it's a matter of keeping up with the times and making sure that it's appealing.

Speaker 4: 28:41

And I think the every David keynote that he gives is basically a reminder of like, why are you here? You're here because Rails allows super small teams to accomplish enormous things, and having the marketing and stuff as a reminder of that is like look, get rid of the complexity. Look what you can do with one or two or three people. They built Shopify and GitHub and yada, yada, yada. There is so much you can do with this.

Speaker 4: 29:10

People have forgotten about that. They've kind of just went oh, what are the big companies do? And they all care about all this complexity. So I guess we should dig into the weeds there too. And it's like you don't have to and it's a it'll be nice to have that, as here's the refreshing thing, which is funny because it's always been the same, but people have forgotten. That's important, and bringing it back and be like, hey, one developer, renaissance developers or whatever, just a reminder of that. And then all the things of the guides is just. It seems like you've got quite a big task in front of you, not to mention another conference.

Speaker 2: 29:49

And they're conference too. I spent a lot of time thinking how would you even tackle this, and I think if I didn't have the advice of the board I'm going to give them a lot of credit here I would have sort of decided to kind of take some time and start from scratch and build from the ground up, after like kind of presenting that to them. They're like or little bits of pieces over time and like constantly make little changes, and I was like oh yeah, that's another way to go about it. So like approaching this is something that they've helped a lot with, and I really appreciate that, because I haven't done this before and of course, the people that we work with might not necessarily have done it on this capacity yet, and it's a lot less intimidating to go okay, let's fix the navigation bar. Okay, what does tutorial template look like? Okay, now, it's just makes it little bite size chunks and it's a lot less intimidating now.

Speaker 4: 30:40

How are you going to juggle some of the stuff that's like very technical, like the guides, for example, where it's like a guide on the rails initialization process still says work in progress. Be nice if none of those said work in progress. Yeah, but that's somebody who's going to be finishing that is going to have to be pretty knowledgeable about rails internals or whatever to finish that, which is probably why it still says work in progress. But I was curious are you going to be hiring developer technical riders that are like rails developers, or do they need to be to know rails?

Speaker 2: 31:19

I would say the bigger requirement there if it was like one or the other, would be a rails developer, because you can tweak your writing, but it's a lot harder to suddenly learn rails. And don't forget as well that the rails core and issues and triage team are behind this, so they'll have eyes on it as well and it can help kind of steer or shape if it's not going in the right way or if they think, okay, that's not the best way to portray it. It'll be a lot of cooks in this particular kitchen, I think, so we'll see how that goes, but I think everybody's keen to see it being moved in the right direction.

Speaker 4: 31:54

Yeah. So I want to encourage anybody if you want to help on this and you don't think you're fit as a technical rider or whatever and you feel like you're more of a rail stuff, you should still apply, because that is exactly what we need for these guides and stuff.

Speaker 2: 32:11

And all sorts of different writing that we will need, like the use cases, social media posts, tutorials, like these are different kinds of technical writing that if your skill is more, for instance, teaching other people and putting things in layman's terms, then possibly picking up the technical writing for tutorials would be better versus the guides, which are highly technical and very specific. So we do need several different styles of technical writer.

Speaker 4: 32:38

Yeah, speaking of the social media, I think that's been a help too. I assume it's you behind most of the tweets on there, but it's nice to see the rails Twitter is active or whatever, because it's kind of been like hey, there's a new release, or whatever in the past and like get a lot of releases or haven't. Hopefully we'll get more consistent basis, but just a constant sort of here's new things, here's what we need, here's what's happening, here's rails world talks and using that as more marketing. It's been a wonderful to see that, because those are all the little things that I feel, like you know as a Rails developer who's been around for a long time. If those things get quiet, we start to worry is rails dead or whatever? But if it's active, then we don't have any doubts of there's a future here. What we're doing matters and all that, and we can get involved too. So I just wanted to shout out that too.

Speaker 2: 33:32

Thanks. That's one of the good things about events it gives you a lot to talk about, like so many talking points, especially the programs that kind of lead into it, like the CFP are getting juniors to create the website or the conference app. So to have that kind of constant, steady stream of news is really nice, just to show people that we are working on things and Rails is around and there's all these people involved in Rails in different ways, and not just the code base but also the event, for instance, that's the title of this episode Exe-Vad-It, exe-vad-it.

Speaker 2: 34:06

Do we know yet what the verb is for Twitter, now that it's called ex? Is it exing it?

Speaker 3: 34:12

I think we're all like have decided that we just don't care.

Speaker 2: 34:15

We just don't go there. I call it Twitter.

Speaker 1: 34:18

Yeah, I still call it tweeting. I'll say post sometimes Like I'm, but I mostly just it'll probably change names again in a month, so just along for the ride.

Speaker 3: 34:27

I do have a question for you. It kind of takes us back a little bit, but not all the way. I want to know what it was like working with the Agency of Learning on the conference app, because I really enjoyed like using that. That was super cool. So I'm just curious, kind of what that experience was like for you.

Speaker 2: 34:41

I'm glad you asked that because I could talk about them with the correct name as much as possible. They were so enthusiastic to work with. As I said, it was being on site in Atlanta and having a conversation with Dave Paola that sparked the idea later, when I couldn't find a conference app built on Rails. So when I reached out to him right away, he was like this is great, this can be fun, we can do so much with this, let's do it. And they put the team together, and Shawmi and Eric were just as excited.

Speaker 2: 35:10

I love easily excitable people because the enthusiasm is so contagious. So they came with ideas and also, of course, cody and Daniel as well, and Dave and Katya for UX design. Everybody came with ideas. So it was really nice because if one person has one idea and then puts it together, it'll be okay. But the polish that comes from a lot of people working together and all these ideas sharing the ideas together is really special, and that's kind of what it was like with working with them Very enthusiastic, very go-getter, very quick, jump on a problem and fix it and come up with solutions. So I can't say enough good things about the agency of learning and the whole process.

Speaker 3: 35:50

Well, I was talking to Eric Halberson Jason and I met him at a conference last year, I guess but I was talking to him about that experience and he was like he talked about like such a positive thing and I was like that's really cool, that like one of the first Rails projects that you get to work on is for Rails world and you got such an amazing experience, Like apparently you are a great QA person, very kind QA person.

Speaker 2: 36:15

I feel like I kept going just one more thing, do you mind? Just one more thing. But they were always like no problem, yeah, yeah, good idea, let's do it, let's do it. So if I was playing the role of client, I was one of those clients, or the kind that's like I have an idea. Oh no, not another idea.

Speaker 4: 36:31

That's good, though, because the experience of learning to code is I have to worry about. Can I make it work period first, and then it's thinking about how do I actually make it feel nice and work smoothly, where that's always. If you're in their shoes and you're like learning Rails, your problem is how do I even make it functional period? And then, getting that feedback is oh, this is interesting. I wish that I had thought of making it work that way, because then I could have just built it right.

Speaker 2: 37:03

The first attempt, or whatever.

Speaker 4: 37:06

I would have had some insights on. I would have designed it differently. But it was fun talking to Eric at the conference. We paired after the conference because he was like you know what I realized the first talk happens and we had say of the start time and the duration in the database but we didn't have the end time, which meant that we couldn't query properly for the end time.

Speaker 4: 37:28

So as soon as the event starts it goes into the past and I was like, yeah see, those are the little gotchas that like you have to experience the app and stuff, but we talked through several different variations of how to work through that and whatever, but I think it was awesome to have them featured on stage and everything. I think it was super special for them. Having the MCs from Lowaggin, miriam and Dairy Dairy yeah, that was so cool too, getting people who are in the community that may not be speaking or whatever, but giving them opportunities to be a part of the event makes it so special too, I think. So I assume you're planning on doing more of this stuff for the next ones.

Speaker 2: 38:12

Yeah, because.

Speaker 4: 38:13

I want you to.

Speaker 2: 38:14

Yeah, it's really nice to. I'm constantly thinking about what happens when we all retire. Who is that next generation? Who's going to pick up the podcast and who's going to be creating the content and who's going to be coming to the events and speaking at the events? These are things we need to sort of cultivate now, and the only way to do that is to bring people into the fold now and kind of, when people come out of boot camps, bridge that gap, become from boot camp graduate to solid community member, and creating opportunities for them in that way is something I think a lot of us can do in different ways and I know a lot of people are like Dave Palla and the Agency of Learning are doing. But any more ideas? I'd love to hear if people are doing that in the communities so we can share and let other companies figure out how to do that. I know it's not easy. It does take some commitment and to work with junior developers and make space for junior developers, but I think it'll take a group effort.

Speaker 4: 39:10

Yeah, it's investing in your future, so it's a good thing to do. Well, we are almost at the top of the hour. You guys have any more questions, or? Amanda? Do you have anything you want to share? I know you've got a couple of job listings available for the technical writer and the designer. Anything else?

Speaker 2: 39:28

I think one of the biggest things would be we are going to start sharing the sponsorship prospectus for Rails World 2024 in Toronto soon. So if companies are interested in sponsoring a North American event, please get in touch at sponsors at rubionrailsorg. And thank you all for being on site, doing your thing on site and being like the worm face of the community worm faces.

Speaker 1: 39:52

Yeah, thanks for the opportunity to do it. The Rails World wouldn't have been the same without Andrew Mason there.

Speaker 2: 39:57

And he's rocking the swag now. Yeah, I am.

Speaker 1: 40:01

I had to go Rails later on earlier. I used to imagine Andrew hasn't taken that off since Amsterdam.

Speaker 2: 40:07

I barely have taken AppSignal off. I also haven't unpacked from Toronto, which was just after. Oh, one last story before I go. I think, Chris, you can appreciate this. The day after Rails World, when the vibe was still high online and in slack, I came home and I thought that my dog was on his way out. I think I thought he was shedding the mortal coil and I had to leave for Toronto on the Monday. So I was like, oh no, it's a bad time. And I was looking at him like buddy, don't do this, this is bad timing or whatever. And I changed all my flights that I would go to Toronto and then be out again after a day. And I brought him to the vet a couple of hours before my flight. They ran some tests. He wasn't only not doing poorly, he was doing better than before. All of his tests were like in the positive and I was like I just changed my flight, I'm missing a wedding for you, Just because I was like he can't, not now, please don't now.

Speaker 2: 41:02

So I was just sobbing on the Saturday after Rails World.

Speaker 4: 41:04

Wow, that's good, very good news.

Speaker 2: 41:07

Yeah, yeah, he's still around. He's still kicking.

Speaker 4: 41:09

I mean we missed him at the conference.

Speaker 2: 41:12

I thought about bringing him out the weekend after.

Speaker 4: 41:14

It might have been a lot that would have piqued it for me.

Speaker 3: 41:18

That might have been too much for me. Finally, everything I've needed. Thank you so much for everything. Yes.

Speaker 2: 41:27

Thanks for having me on again and I will see you all next in Toronto.

Speaker 3: 41:31

Yes, sounds good, can't wait. Yeah, I'm excited.

Speaker 4: 41:34

We got to start working on our talks.